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Old Nov 21, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33   #41
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Anet is doing fine...many of their work is outsourced (1/9 to 1/3). What I heard is that about a third of the art work of GW:F are done in NCsina located in Beijing, China alone.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49   #42
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Originally Posted by Manic Smile
and I think a lot of us were happy to see them go...


as long as A.net can keep the franchise going...meaning they have enough of a profit margin...I hope more people leave, maybe we'll finally see that lag issue fixed
Them selling fewer units will NOT inspire them to upgrade their hardware. People leaving is the worst thing for the game this isn't rocket science.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59   #43
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Bad new travel faster, and Complain is always louder=P
shouldnt everyone know this by now??

Upgrade the ai from single cell to bug brain
I am not saying it is a good ai(I havnet see charr warrior /tuant players follow by 3 waves of charr rangers' fire arrow=P)
but to say they are too difficult?? not an improvement??
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22   #44
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Originally Posted by FalconDance
Do I have concerns about Anet? Yes. I worry that all the whiners and bitchers will eventually cause the very problems they are whining about to come about. When these individuals are on their non-stop whinging mode, all they see (or talk about) is the negatives they perceive as the doom of the game. Seldom do they ever seem to mention any positives. Anyone ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Keep complaining, show no appreciation of any work done by the devs - work, I may add that they provide each and every day for no fee other than the original outlay for the game and the hope that someone will appreciate it enough to mentnion it and to recommend it to their friends - and eventually someone will throw up their hands and wonder why the hell they're even bothering!
I understand that concern because sometimes that does happen. I used to work in the gaming industry and have seen game devs reading forums for feedback on their game and throwing up their hands in frustration at times. But most of the time, they're sensible enough to see most of the rant and whines for what they are....just plain ol' bitching.

Devs do welcome some criticism. But it's gone way past any limit of being productive on these boards. The same people keep coming back to nag and nag and nag. And then have the nerve to offer wild speculations as proof of the doom and gloom and downfall of ANET and GW.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31   #45
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Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
I understand that concern because sometimes that does happen. I used to work in the gaming industry and have seen game devs reading forums for feedback on their game and throwing up their hands in frustration at times. But most of the time, they're sensible enough to see most of the rant and whines for what they are....just plain ol' bitching.

Devs do welcome some criticism. But it's gone way past any limit of being productive on these boards. The same people keep coming back to nag and nag and nag. And then have the nerve to offer wild speculations as proof of the doom and gloom and downfall of ANET and GW.
People have been asking for storage and auction for more than a year. Anet has not responded to this. You talk about people being quick to bitch ... the other side of the coin is just as counterproductive. Speaking as a business owner I WANT my REPEAT customers. Anet should try listening to core complaints and correcting them not throwing weekend events that get them rave reviews from fan bois. If I had servers crashing and customers needed a place to store their records I would NOT try to make them happy with a new mouse pad. WAKE UP ANET.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49   #46
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People have been asking for storage and auction for more than a year. Anet has not responded to this. You talk about people being quick to bitch ... the other side of the coin is just as counterproductive. Speaking as a business owner I WANT my REPEAT customers. Anet should try listening to core complaints and correcting them not throwing weekend events that get them rave reviews from fan bois. If I had servers crashing and customers needed a place to store their records I would NOT try to make them happy with a new mouse pad. WAKE UP ANET.
Gaile has responded plenty of times on those two issues. Do you think people don't ask her about it enough times? The answer is always the same. They're working on it.

Sure, it's taking a long time. So I guess we should all rant and throw a tantrum until they put those features in right? If we all nag them enough they'll work faster right?

I'm sure as a business owner you appreciate your customers nagging you over and over about unreasonable things. Do any of them nag you about giving them free stuff or service? That's what you're all doing. There's a point where trying to please customers becoming unreasonable. And a lot of you are way past that point.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58   #47
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One word: heros

(They are the reason why most outposts are empty. People play, they just don't spend much time for grouping anymore)
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25   #48
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This may help answer some questions..

NCsoft Makes Profit Turnaround in Third Quarter of 2006
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30   #49
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Increased sales and lowered operating costs? Yeah ANET and NCSoft are definately sinking ships!
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44   #50
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Originally Posted by Minus Sign
With GW off the Top ten NPD best sellers
just found a link proving this statement wrong

Rankings based on units sold, according to NPD figures from October 22-28, 2006
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guild...ml?sid=6161500
Quote:
1 The Sims 2: Pets,Release Date: Oct 17, 2006
2 Battlefield 2142, release: Oct 17, 2006
3 Microsoft Flight Simulator X, release:Oct 17, 2006
4 World of Warcraft, release: Nov 23, 2004
5 Guild Wars Nightfall, release:Oct 26, 2006
not bad for 3 days of retail sales
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47   #51
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Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
Increased sales and lowered operating costs? Yeah ANET and NCSoft are definately sinking ships!
But that was only for the Lineage and CoH series, as stated in the article.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57   #52
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But that was only for the Lineage and CoH series, as stated in the article.
I won't claim that I fully understand articles like that but from what I read they included Guild Wars in the overall net profit as well. I guess they didnt list Nightfall Sales specifically because it's too early? I'm not sure...

"Meanwhile, the percentage breakdown of sales by game titles shows Lineage and Lineage II with 36% and 35%, respectively, followed by City of Heroes/City of Villains with 9% and Guild Wars® with 14%."

"On October 27, NCsoft carried out a simultaneous global launch of the third campaign in the Guild Wars franchise, Guild Wars Nightfall™"
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02   #53
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Originally Posted by larkdetemplar
I've been growing quite concerned about the state of the game recently - since NF came out. First the bonus pack didn't give a 24 hour head start (unlike the Factions Bonus pack) but it did give a character slot.
The official Nightfall FAQ stated from VERY early on that a headstart would not be happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larkdetemplar
Then the game launches and the merchant prices and commodity availability seem unnaturally stable.
When is this not ever the case? In fact, it's normal and self correcting. It's also a thing that reflects volatile market dynamics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larkdetemplar
A line in the Scribes scroll sounds like a plea to the GW community to buy NF.
A quote would help. Duh, ANet has this thing about people buying their products and The Scribe is but one part of the community and marketing relationship. Fansites and marketing are related as well, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larkdetemplar
The Sunspear title is immediately capped at lvl8.
People are already complaing about "the grind" involved which is silly. If you just play the missions and most quests you cap out the Sunspear Ranks. Additionally, Suspear Titles are not the same as other titles we have had before, because the rank is entwined in the game flow. What other "titles" play directly into the main story line? None, that I know of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larkdetemplar
The NF elite mission isn't pushed to production. The vaunted new pvp system isn't pushed.
Happens all the time when there is a set schedule to get a game out the door. There's always pressure to get the game out the door, BUT there is also the concept that stuff can be added after release through the wonderful power of streamed updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larkdetemplar
And now by all appearances, the Prima guide to NF seems cancelled - in fact, if you had it on order, your order is cancelled and there is no longer indication that one is even in the works or pending release.
Prima Guides are largely obsolete/outdated once a game has been out more than 2 weeks, sometimes before that, lol. Without a statement from Prima Publisher or ANet we won't know for certain, but big whoop, if I was gonna write a guide, I'd actually want the game to be matured a little bit before doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larkdetemplar
Even the job listings on ArenaNet remain unchanged - and with 10+ years of experience in IT, I can tell you that when you see the same job listing sitting there, that means the job doesn't exist.
This is stretching things a bit. First it assumes the job listing is even being updated...

Quote:
Originally Posted by larkdetemplar
Did NF fail to yield an influx of new players? Is the title not selling? In fact, it seems as if NF must be selling at least to existing players because both Tyria and Cantha are empty. Ironically, I can't find any location in Elona with sufficient enough people to explain the absenses.
Highly anecdotal.

My Guild Wars has been fairly crowded of late. And it's only natural that older game areas will have less people during the period after a major expansion is released.

Yes, most existing players do make up the buy of Nightfall purchases. This is called repeat business and it's good for business.

The release of Nightfall rounds out the story arc tying in all 3 Campaigns, there is definitely even MORE of a reason to own all 3 games. All 3 campaigns differ from each other in enough ways to keep it interesting. New story/game devices are introduced. Variations introduced, etc. (Compare Mission flow in Prophecies to Nightfall, for example.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by larkdetemplar
I've been hearing a lot of buzz about this recently in my Alliances newsletters and site. What's going on?
Seriously, go write arguments for a conspiracy theory website, or find a politician claiming there's WMD's to be found somewhere.

And stop worrying so much, eh?
Last edited by Kuldebar Valiturus; Nov 21, 2006 at 08:18 PM // 20:18..
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06   #54
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I'm going to have to weigh in here and agree with the people saying that ANet is in dire straits indeed if some glaring issues are not addressed and soon. The AI is the number one thing that people seem to be disliking about NF. Their closed rank attitude towards this issue is starting to irritate a lot of people. We've been pointing out the issues with the new AI for quite some time and it still has yet to be fixed, if indeed it is even broken. There has been speculation that they intended the AI to be this way in which case the outcry against it should still be enough for them to revert it to it's original pre-Nightfall state regardless of whether it works as they want it to.

In the end I think a lot of players are seeing a general lack of response from the development team and taking that as a sign that they do not care. Granted their time is limited and they are working on other projects, but when a customer has a problem they don't care about your time constraints they want their problem addressed right away. That's simply good customer service regardless of your industry. I know I for one will not be purchasing future chapters and I'm seriously considering going over to WoW, despite the monthly fee, as soon as Burning Crusade hits, unless some of these issues are resolved. I have wracked my brain trying to come up with good reasons why we haven't heard so much as a whimper out of ANet about the AI issue that is continually brought up, not just here but in other forums, go ahead and google it and prepare to be amazed, and I simply cannot find any reason at all that they should be ignoring or closing ranks in the face of such an overwhelmingly negative response. It's bad business to ignore your customer base like that. If I did that in my restaraunt I'd be out of business. If thirty customers walked in and told me that they didn't much care for the level of spice in a given dish then you'd better believe I'd alter it rather than loose that business. New customers only carry you so far. You need to get repeat business to make a profit and unfortunately I think this AI issue is going to force a lot of people to find other games out of sheer frustration.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27   #55
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GW acounts for 14% of their profits. You do not need a Harvard degree in business to realize they (Ncsoft™) will focus on the Lineage™ series as it accounts for approx 75% of their income. BUT this does not mean they will ignore GW, it may mean however they will not be as "diligent" in fixing it as they would for Lineage™etc. Why? Lineage™ is their cash cow, GW is merely a contributor.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32   #56
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
In the end I think a lot of players are seeing a general lack of response from the development team and taking that as a sign that they do not care. .. I know I for one will not be purchasing future chapters and I'm seriously considering going over to WoW
grass is always greener on the other side

but seriously,
Gaile has been responsive about lack of Elite missions and the AI
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10075912
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10075386
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10072893

give it some time
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35   #57
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Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
Gaile has responded plenty of times on those two issues. Do you think people don't ask her about it enough times? The answer is always the same. They're working on it.

Sure, it's taking a long time. So I guess we should all rant and throw a tantrum until they put those features in right? If we all nag them enough they'll work faster right?

I'm sure as a business owner you appreciate your customers nagging you over and over about unreasonable things. Do any of them nag you about giving them free stuff or service? That's what you're all doing. There's a point where trying to please customers becoming unreasonable. And a lot of you are way past that point.
I know better than to respond to a fan boi but can't help it .. storage and auction is hardly unreasonable. Core issues are not nags .. sorry. The person wanting a certain type of mini pet yes. If I ran my business as they do I wouldn't have any customers. Judging by your post count and when you joined it is safe to say you spend more time trolling than playing.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36   #58
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I like the prima guides, and dont really care that they are out of date quickly---they have all the mission information in printed form (remember wiki was down or sooooo slow for a good amount of time it wasnt useable), and I dont have to sit in front of my computer to look thru them (or on the internet waiting for the pages to upload).....I can leaf thru them quickly, mark the pages I am using----but them I read books too, so I am some old fart whose not up to date with the rest of the world.
I am unhappy that the guide will not be available, I like collecting them as well. I still use the prophecy one from time to time to look at the maps and such (and I dont have to log onto my computer to do so either).
Its a shame, really a shame.
I dont take it as a sign of the end of guild wars though, they have other issues that are doing that for areanet.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Str0b0
In the end I think a lot of players are seeing a general lack of response from the development team and taking that as a sign that they do not care. Granted their time is limited and they are working on other projects, but when a customer has a problem they don't care about your time constraints they want their problem addressed right away. That's simply good customer service regardless of your industry. I know I for one will not be purchasing future chapters and I'm seriously considering going over to WoW, despite the monthly fee, as soon as Burning Crusade hits, unless some of these issues are resolved. I have wracked my brain trying to come up with good reasons why we haven't heard so much as a whimper out of ANet about the AI issue that is continually brought up, not just here but in other forums, go ahead and google it and prepare to be amazed, and I simply cannot find any reason at all that they should be ignoring or closing ranks in the face of such an overwhelmingly negative response. It's bad business to ignore your customer base like that. If I did that in my restaraunt I'd be out of business. If thirty customers walked in and told me that they didn't much care for the level of spice in a given dish then you'd better believe I'd alter it rather than loose that business. New customers only carry you so far. You need to get repeat business to make a profit and unfortunately I think this AI issue is going to force a lot of people to find other games out of sheer frustration.
Honestly, if you think ANet isn't being receptive to it's player base then perhaps you haven't been exposed to many online games before. After 2 years in WoW, I can tell you that Blizzard is a lot less personable and "real" in there brushes with the players. ANet has a very human face to it's customer relations in the form of Gaile Gray.

The AI changes shook things up a lot, but I think the jury is still out on some of the issues. I don't notice the "AI strangeness" on all my characters, so it might not be so straightforward. I still find PvE battles to be high action and fast paced enough to keep me entertained. But, AI tweaks are ongoing and the game isn't broken.

There is a common truth in MMORPG's and their ilk: sometimes the giving the customers what they say they want can kill a game. Or set it back.

Really, I have seen it.

It's happened in Dark Ages of Camelot, cries for class nerf's and more PvE oriented content...

It's already happened in WoW not long after it's release with Dishonorable Kills in PvP. World PvP and class nerfs.

BUT, these things are normal.

A developer walks a fine line:

Between listening to a player and sticking to his guns.

You know how much flack Michelangelo received from his customers regarding the his work in the Sistine Chapel? Point is, he stayed mostly true to his Vision although he also made a few concessions.

People are way too antsy. Just sit back and have a little faith.

The only constant is change and we will never lack a reason bitch about things, of that I am certain.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47   #60
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Someone asked the OP for proof? Okay.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153106.html
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6161358.html

Read between the lines with me.

GWNF was released when it was to boost fourth quarter earning for parent company NCSoft. Unfinished, buggy and with poorly thought-out anti-farm code, the boost this chapter gives to NCSoft is enough to put it back in the black for the year. This lack of regard for game quality and nigh-abuse of its player base is a disturbing trend for NCSoft

Are your fears warranted? Probably. NCSoft looks to be cutting still more dead weight in the wake of AutoAssault. With GW off the Top ten NPD best sellers and down in revenue from 25% (couldn’t find link but I believe that was back in January this year) to 14 percent this year, the franchise is becoming expendable.

Add to that, the—shall we say—controversial changes to the games dynamic between PvP and PvE, lackluster response here on the boards and outright bad rap the game is getting over its crusade against farmers…Anet may very well be in trouble; not just GW.

What remains is a logical conjecture based on normal business/customer relations. When players are badmouthing the game on the scale GW is getting then you can bet they are telling others. Word of mouth is deadly in the VG industry; a large percentage of games sales can be attributed to word of mouth “dude; you gotta try this its leet” kinda stuff. The general rule is that when ten people like something, only one of them will tell others. When ten people hate something, nine of those people will scream their heads off.

So while many people may say “then the people who actually like this are probably not tin the minority” I have to remind you: the potential new players reading this won’t care what the silent masses think. They’ll take one look at boards like this and run back to WoW.

The problem with most of these changes isn’t that they were catering to old players. Arenanet looks to be trying to branch out and find new players. This are having an adverse effect on the core player base (ie: the change to HA was certainly not condoned by the HA players. One need only go to ID1 to see that. And before anyone pulls out the Heroway killed HA card, I stopped playing pre-Nightfall. Numbers were dropping in peek hours a month in advance of the mess you live in now) who is starting to feel slighted.

They’ve offended many of their loyal customers in their search for new markets. As those new markets have yet to materialize all they are left with is the regular loyal customer base buying Ch3 (with fewer than bought CH2 I believe we will see when the quarterly earnings are officially out). Many players adopt a wait and see attitude toward games like this. If an expansion (whatever Anet wants to call these, they are expansions imo) has bad word of mouth in the first month (as NF is getting in spades) those players who waited will probably decide not to buy. Since the content for the first two chapters is not enough to keep most players interested in the game for yet another 6 month cycle, it is doubtful they will be around for CH4.

Fewer players=less revenue from the game=less money for devs and mintainence to fix bugs and add content. So to those of you happy me and my money left: LMAO nublets.

QFTFT

Wow dude great post. and what your saying makes perfect sence...

all i know is that just myself have seen about 20 players stop with chapter 3 altogether.. and myself and another will also probably be done if we dont see some improvment with the upcoming ai update.

Guilds are dying all over the place... players are leaving...

Good post dude.. the information you have provided would be pretty hard for anyone to overlook and write off as speculation.

as i have said.. gw is in a fragile state right now... they know a lot of people are not happy with them at the moment.. and they know that players hold the key to them getting paid..

In the buisness world forsight is key... and i can betcha some of the people that are investing money into anet are having a look at the numbers and are hating what they are seeing... they could care less that its a lil early.. they see the numbers and they have to make a move quick before they loose any money...

So with that... yes.. nc soft is in a very tricky spot.. and you can bet some of the pressure that nc soft is feeling will trickle down to anet.. and that my friends may just lead to the changes a lot of us have been looking for.
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